Democracy Paradox Podcast
About the Episode:

In this episode of Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with political theorist Russell Muirhead about his book Ungoverning and the growing attack on the administrative state. Muirhead explains how “ungoverning” undermines government’s capacity to carry out basic functions, replaces expertise with personalized power, and fuels democratic backsliding. The conversation explores why effective governance is essential to democracy – regardless of ideology – and what is at stake when governing gives way to chaos.

Full Transcript

Show Notes:

Introduced through a conversation with Kellogg Doctoral Affiliate Patrick McQuestion, this episode of Democracy Paradox features political theorist Russell Muirhead discussing his book Ungoverning: The Attack on the Administrative State and the Politics of Chaos. Muirhead introduces the concept of “ungoverning,” which he defines as a systematic assault on the government’s capacity to do the basic work citizens expect – responding to emergencies, regulating safety, enforcing laws, and implementing public policy – by undermining the administrative state that carries out those functions. He explains why this often-overlooked part of government is essential to democracy, regardless of whether a society favors large or small government.

The conversation explores how ungoverning differs from familiar ideas like neoliberalism or libertarianism. Muirhead emphasizes that governing is not ideological: conservatives, liberals, and libertarians alike depend on administrative capacity to implement their preferred policies. Ungoverning, by contrast, is a comprehensive attack on competence and expertise itself, replacing policy-based governance with chaos and personalization of power. Kempf and Muirhead discuss how this erosion of expertise and legibility makes the administrative state vulnerable to conspiracy theories such as the “deep state” narrative.

Kempf and Muirhead also place ungoverning in comparative perspective, examining cases inside and outside the United States. They discuss how attacks on expertise and civil servants have played out in places like Venezuela, and why ungoverning is not simply about how much the state does, but how power is exercised. Muirhead argues that ungoverning represents a shift away from the rule of law toward arbitrary rule, concentrating authority in the will of a single leader rather than in impersonal, publicly accountable institutions.

The episode concludes with a reflection on democratic backsliding and why ungoverning poses a profound threat to constitutional democracy. Muirhead explains that naming and understanding ungoverning helps make sense of the “politics of chaos” and clarifies what is at stake for citizens across the political spectrum. The discussion challenges listeners – on the left, right, and center – to consider whether dismantling the capacity to govern is compatible with democracy itself.

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